NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080/3090 graphics cards face Crash To Desktop (CTD) problems
The ongoing problems with GeForce RTX 30 series launch are reaching new grounds. From a very limited stock, sponsored videos ahead of independent reviews to actual hardware issues with the very few cards that were already delivered – this launch will definitely not going to be positively remembered.
We recently reported on a problem that had arisen in the last few days and it seems that we have only touched upon an issue that is rapidly escalating. To make things worse, NVIDIA has still not officially acknowledged the issue.
The timeline
But let’s go back a little to understand what exactly is happening:
- September 15th: Colorful is the first manufacturer to report the instability issues (unofficially through emails):
- September 17th+: The first customers who bought RTX 30 series cards start to report on the problems. To our knowledge, no reviewer had reported the issues.
- September 23rd: ComputerBase made the first article on Crash to Desktop issue. On the same day, VideoCardz.com makes the first English report.
- September 25th: Igor Wallosek (igor’sLAB) publishes the first analysis of the problem, suggests that the capacitors may be the culprit.
- September 26th: Board partners make first official statements,
The problem
The issue is likely related to the capacitors installed at the back of the GPU. In this generation (GeForce RTX 30), this is actually very easy to see as the most manufacturers did not cover this area with a backplate. There are six necessary bottom capacitors that are responsible for filtering NVVDD/MSVDD GPU voltages. The better the filtering the less likely the card is to encounter issues at high frequencies (ie factory-overclocking).
The problem was first reported when custom boards were reaching 2.0 GHz+ clock speeds during gaming. This resulted in a sudden crash to desktop issues without any warning. The worse the voltage filtering and the higher the clock speed of the custom design was, the more likely users were to encounter this problem.
The issue is mostly related (at least from what is being reported now) to the choice of capacitors. AIBs need to follow NVIDIA guidelines to use either POSCAPs (Conductive Polymer Tantalum Solid Capacitors) – marked red on the picture below – or MLCCs (Multilayer Ceramic Chip Capacitor) – marked as green on a picture below. A combination of both is also possible and actively used on many cards (including Founders Edition). The under-specified guidelines could also be a culprit of the problem, because AIBs rely on those documents to the letter, especially when proper testing is not possible before launch.
It is worth noting that Buildzoid (video attached below) claims that these are not POSCAPs (in fact none of the RTX 30 cards use them). These are called SP-Caps.
NVIDIA PG132 PCB Diagram (left), ZOTAC TRINITY (center), ASUS TUF (right), Source:
Igor’sLAB
The brands that opted for more MLCCs instead of POSCAPs are seeing fewer reports on instability issues. A full list of all cards including their capacitor layouts was gathered by Nestledrink (NVIDIA Subreddit moderator)
in this post.
However, just because the card uses MLCCs instead of POSCAPs, it does not mean that the design is bad. After all, we do not know if the issue is only caused by capacitors themselves, or there is more at play here.
The MLCC is cheap and small, they operate at current ratings, voltages, and temperates, but they are prone to cracking and piezo effects, they also have bad temperature characteristics.
The POSCAP is bigger and has lower voltage ratings and is worse at high frequencies. They are however stronger and not prone to cracking, they also have no piezo effects, POSCAPS should also operate better at higher temperatures.
The full lists of pros and cons were provided by an electrical engineer
Mirrormaster85 on Reddit, who specializes in PCB design.
JayzTwoCents Video
Actually Hardcore Overclocking Coverage
The response
NVIDIA
At the time of writing, there was no official statement from NVIDIA.
COLORFUL
The manufacturer was the first to report on a issue unofficially to the press. Review samples that were already sent out, were later recalled.
EVGA
Recently there has been some discussion about the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 series.
During our mass production QC testing we discovered a full 6 POSCAPs solution cannot pass the real world applications testing. It took almost a week of R&D effort to find the cause and reduce the POSCAPs to 4 and add 20 MLCC caps prior to shipping production boards, this is why the EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 series was delayed at launch. There were no 6 POSCAP production EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 boards shipped.
But, due to the time crunch, some of the reviewers were sent a pre-production version with 6 POSCAP’s, we are working with those reviewers directly to replace their boards with production versions.
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 series with 5 POSCAPs + 10 MLCC solution is matched with the XC3 spec without issues.
Also note that we have updated the product pictures at EVGA.com to reflect the production components that shipped to gamers and enthusiasts since day 1 of product launch. Once you receive the card you can compare for yourself, EVGA stands behind its products!
— Jacob Freeman,
EVGA Forums
ASUS
ASUS has changed the design in pre-production. No official statement was made.
MSI
MSI acknowledged the issue during the MSI Insider Livestream, suggested it could be a driver issue.
ZOTAC
Igor’sLAB reports: PC Partner, Zotac’s mother company, seems to have recognized this and is obviously changing its cards.
GIGABYTE, GALAX and other brands
No official statement.